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Dinstitute
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... I wasn't at the fights Jeff. However I have never had any problem with Eric Heinz or his abilities as a referree. Again I'm not sure what exactly happened up in Casper but I'm sure the other side will come on and give their account as well. |
JASON.M
said:
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... Hey Jeff, maybe you should go to a MMA reffing clinic and see how the fights are to be reffed!!!! He is an Amature fighter but anyways the ref started the two fighters right where they were supposed to be restarted with the dominent position givin to Luke, the refs are not allowed to restart AMATURE fighters in an armbar or any joint fixated position. Tell your boy to go pro and then you wouldn’t have to worry about the AMMYS rules!!!!!!!! Why dont you get in the cage and try to ref a fight? Heinz did what was needed to be done and your just upset cause your Family member lost. |
Kick Down MMA
said:
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... Hey Jeff.....Lame at best? What the hell show were you at? The Heinz issue was not perfect but Luke had the opportunity to finish regardless of what happened initially and Roszel did NOT tap out so the restart was proper. Luke handled the issue with class and respect and perhaps unfortunate I would be proud to have him back any time. Every referee and I repeat every referee makes mistakes of some sort. I stand behind Eric Heinz as one of the best referees in the USA and I would and will have him back at every show I can get him. As far as you are concerned since you are supposed to be a promoter I might have figured you would understand the intricate details of that sort of thing happening and the fact that NOTHING in the sport is perfect and that as a promoter of fan, fighter, corner person, things often happen out of the control of the promoter but what can be controlled by any promoter is when someone is given a pass, or a corner persons credential to help out or even see the fights and because of an alleged problem someone maintains that the show was lame at best? My suggestion is this next time stay at home and do something different and then you will not have to be concerned about the numerous other fans that wished they could have gotten the type of seat you got and couldnt. Things sometimes are not perfect as staed but by making your statement you disrespect not only the fighter you are supposed to be supporting but everyone else associated with that event. Would it have been "lame" had he won? |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... why did they stop the fight with an armbar? was he working in it, or was he just holding on and not improving it? |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Steve you had chance when i asked. Instead i was shined on. You want to talk disrespect. Eric Hines stopped the fight in favor for Luke. Any Ref would stand by there decision. Straight up Luke won fight!And had it took away do to Ref Error. Jason you don't need to go to REF school to know that was bulls**t!I have watched count less shows, watched count less ammy bouts. Not in a life time of MMA, have I seen that crap happen. I understand you can not restart fight with Joint lock position. Why stop armbar then. Steve you hold you promotion at great regard.I know i upset you with Lame at best thing. Your choice to shine me on. I have spent alot of money towards your promotion. If you don't understands me being upset, put your family member on promotion to get the shaft. Me I payed my dues, I exspect more. There is no doubt me and my people choose to stay at home. He did win Steve. If a fighter trains his ass off ,all to get cheated, are you not the one that disrespects the fighter. I will state again when aRef stops a fight do to armbar, he should not change his mind.This sport has know room for those errors. A fighter has to know he is getting a fair shake. Calls like that, should not be tolerated.He did not stop multiple illegal strikes in Pete V vs Tim O fight. |
Kehlin Roszel
said:
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... when luke had me in that armbar i defended it and escaped and the reff thought i was hurt and since you can't restart the fight back in a submission he put me on my back and luke in side mount luke could of capitalized on the position but he didn't and i got the W but luke is a classy guy and i have alot of respect for him i am glad i got to fight him |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Kehlin you were trying to defend the arm bar,you did not escape the arm bar. that was locked until ref stopped it,rightfully so or your arm would feel worst than it does.I was wrong in saying the show was Lame at best,but every thing else i stand firm.And you and your family are class A people. Even Damon Clark knows that was a bad call.Why did ref stop fight if you defended and escaped.Fact is i do not blame you any wrong doing. Just bad call by Ref and promoter not to stick with ref stoppages. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... I have been hesitant to comment on this article mainly due to the gay-ass avatar I have. But, why was the fight initially stopped? Were they falling out of the ring? That seems to be a common theme from a lot of fighters who fight in rings. |
nasTY
said:
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... IMO if a ref stops a fight due to joint lock for the safety of a fighter- its over. There should be no restart because in the ref's opinion one fighter had the lock and he was saving the other from serious damage. Its not a perfect system but the ref has to look out for fighter safety first and formost. If he thinks a arm is about to break he has to stop it- I just don't agree with the restart. My humble opinion... |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... I agree with Nasty, and diagree with mike. the dude in Mike's avatar is a stud. |
Dr. Alex
said:
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... I understand being upset about a call, but the WHOLE promotion was bad because of one questionable call? While you might not agree with the call or how it was handled I refuse to believe Steve Alley is in any way "shady" as his has poven himself to me to be one of the most upstanding promoters I have ever worked for. One more reason states including Wyoming need to get off their lazy a**es and form comissions - to protect the safety AND fairness of the fighters. |
Dinstitute
said:
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... It all depends on "WHY" the fight was stopped. If it was for the safety of the fighter, then it's a win. If it was stopped because they were falling out of the ring or another instance where it had nothing to do with the submission then it was a good restart. Either way; People get pissed off all the time at referree calls. It is not the fault of the promoter. The promoter is not going to overturn a referree in the middle of the action. Just as the boxing commission wouldn't do it. I stated earlier that I think Eric Heinz is an excellent ref. If a mistake was made, then we learn from it and move on. If you feel that strongly about the loss then appeal it to a sanctioning body or put an asterik next to that particular one. STEVE ALLEY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Let me restate,the refs call was shady. I did not say any one person is shady. I am upset with Ref and Steve for there actions. I am theee upstsnding person you will ever meet as well. Ask any body, including your buddy Steve. Im calling it like it is. Steve lost a valuable VIP customers and my respect. This was not a ring.Was a cage. |
nasTY
said:
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... was the arm bar done agaist the ropes? All three of my fights were in rings and I agree, they make the job much harder on the ref, but not everybody can afford a quality cage... so its up to the fighters to try to stay out of the ropes or don't try subs when your close to the edge, I guess that just ups the skill level needed because you have to control where the fight takes place better. |
JRSFITNESS
said:
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... I was sitting cageside doing the play-by-play for the event, so, I got an explanation of the call from the referee himself immediately following the match. I'll get to what happened, and why, but first I'd like to address a few points made by the original poster. First: I have personally watched Eric Heinz referee 50 matches. Colorado and the rocky mountain region is full of outstanding referees and Heinz is to be included with the best. He has had involvement in literally hundreds of matches as a competitor, cornerman, coach, trainer, judge and referee. His experience is matched by few and to say that he is anything less than overqualified to be the third man in the ring making split second decisions would be an understatement. Second: It was stated that Steve Alley should act as the comission in an instance where one is not in inexestance. By letting the referee do his job and not interfering from the outside he did exactly what any comission(er) would have done. As the promoter he cannot simply stand up and in an instant when there is a dispute make up arbitrary rules; that would be a gross conflict of interest and he has far to much integrity to take any such action. The referee had stopped the bout and a restart was justified; Steve let that happen. No further action needed to be taken by him and none would have been warranted. Third: The statement was made that the incident was,"shady." To state that calls into question the integrity and honesty of Steve and Eric. It is implied that there was something predetermined. To make such a statement is untruthful and disrespectful. In fact nothing could be farther from the truth. No promoter could be coming up on their 50th show if they had anything other than an upstanding reputation within the MMA community. Time and time again I have heard fighters, coaches, judges, referees, cornermen, other promoters and fans speak of the high regard in which they hold Steve. The comment is unfortunate and unfounded. The event was held with a cage, so to those not in attendance, ropes did not have anything to do with the call. The incident: Rehurek was fighting off of his back and he sunk in a very deep and tight armbar on Roszel who was on one knee. Rehurek cranked the arm sideways putting a lot of torque on the elbow of Roszel. The referee stepped in to take a close look at the submission and as Roszel was working to effect an escape he yelled to the referee that he was fine. Because he had started yelling the referee broke the fighters, THEN it became apparent to the referee that Roszel had been saying that he was OK. Because of this it was determined that a restart was warranted. As stated earlier in the thread a fight will not be restarted with a joint in a fixated position. In a recent referee clinic at the Olympic training center a panel of referees decided that in exactly this kind of situation the fighter that was applying the submission would be given side mount, as this is the position where he has the most options. From here the top fighter has the ability to transition to another position, to strike, to set up multiple submissions or to stand up with minimal risk of being struck. Basically it is one of the best places to be. From the bottom Roszel quickly spun to regain full guard, got an armbar and Rehurek tapped out to the joint lock. All in all an unfortunate situation, but it was handled as is specified by the rules of several sanctioning bodies. After the incident Mr. Rehurek shook the hand of his opponent and left the cage with grace and dignity. He showed great sportsmanship in a trying time and for that he is to be commended. His professionalism in the face of adversity speaks volumes about his character and I for one hope to be fortunate enough to watch him compete for years to come as I feel he is a shining example of what our sport can be. Best in Health and Training, J. R. Gordon. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... I agree with 99% of what you said but I would like to interject. "but it was handled as is specified by the rules of several sanctioning bodies. " I have never seem such rule applied, and I can give many cases were the W was handed, most recently being Chael Sonnen vs Paulo Fihlo. Chael did not tap, there is proof he did not tap, ref though he heard him yell, and he said he was saying "NO" to the ref. The ref did not, nor would he start them in sid emount. A imididiate re match shoudl be given, like what was going to happen with Sonnen and Fihlo. If Colorado implemented some kind of side mount rule, because the fighter said he said "no" then they shoudl honnor that everytime a fight gets stopped, which IMO, would be a rule everyone would try to bend. A rematch should happen most def. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... But I will say reffing MMA is probably one of the hardest sports to ref, and I know its a thankless job. I have seen some refs locally who make me scratch my head (none mentioned here) that make me wonder about the criteria, but there are not a lot of people lining up to do it either. |
PCFJeff
said:
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... JR for doing alot of writing you can not read.And if you agree with that call , blow smoke up somone one elses ass. I did not say anything about Steve and Eric on personal level. They made a s**ty call. Everybody in crowd and beyond new that was bad call. Yea Luke took it in the ass like a champ!Hugh! |
Kehlin Roszel
said:
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... I'm the one who was fighting i did escape the armbar why Eric restarted us was because he realized i was ok so he decided to let the fight continue he has the power not me |
JASON.M
said:
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... This is a rule that is to be inforced in AMMATURE bouts, as i stated eariler. In a PRO bout if you get put into the position of an arm bar or any joint lock it is at your choice to tap!! In any AMMY fight it is the Refs job to keep the fighters safe. I heard an Ammy (not sure of his name) walk up to Eric and personally thank him for stoping his fight because he said it so him self "I would not have tapped", but then said how greatful he was the Mr. Heinz stoped the fight before his arm got broke. Eric did do a great job and by the sounds of Steve did not lose that great of a "VIP" person in the way you are acting. Also I was sitting ring side and heard Kehlin yell, which in the position they were in could have been that he was verbally tapping but when Heinz did stop the fight it was apperent that he was saying "I'm ok" but when you are right there like a Ref you have to make those split second judgments and this one was one of them. It was a great fight and atleast your "family member" was Professional about the situation unlike you Jeff. Steve loved the show and can't wait for the next!!! Oh last thing about Pete's fight what illegal strikes? One kick to a downed opponent which was stoped and taken care so watch what you say punk cause it will come back to ya. If I ever see ya at a show I promise to introduce myself to you. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... First Kehlin, its cool. nature of the beats who knows. and Jason, even though I do not agree with jeff, threating physical violence because of his opinons, is just giving fodder tot he people who knock out sport. |
Beth
said:
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... the Facts: If you are in an amateur fight and an arm bar is fully extended it is the refs call. If you are in a pro fight then it is at the fighters discretion as to weather or not he wants to fight the arm bar, or get his arm broken. In this case, an amateur fight, kehlin was in a fully extended arm bar...therefor it was in the refs hands. THe ref decided to pull Luke off of kehlin because his arm was seconds from being snapped. The ref made this call right, but when the crowds reaction was heard, "BOOOOOOO!!!" to the point where i counldn't hear myself screaming he decided to change his mind. It was a lot of Bull s**t. |
JASON.M
said:
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... I am not trying to threaten anyone, I just want him to know that I am not on here just blabing s**t, I honestly will introduce myself to him and that way he knows who I am is all. Beth, the Ref did not stop the fight because the arm was so extended, he stoped it because Kehlin yelled something which in the loud venue probably seemed like a verbal tap, but after stopping the fight found out that Kehlin was actually saying "I'm ok" in which case Heinz decided to start the fight again giving dominent position (which is side mount according to CSAA)again to Luke which should have done more than what he did from that position. Crapy thing for any ref is trying to decifer the difference from an arrogent kid that will not tap because of an ego, and a kid that has a double jointed joint and can take that kind of bend. In my opinion Eric did a great job because obviously any one at the fight saw Kehlin had a double jointed elbow and was not in need of tapping. |
Dinstitute
said:
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... This sounds like a classic case of a premature stoppage. The ref saw something that might have caused injury, he determined that there was NO potential for injury, so he restarted the fighters. Since you are not allowed to restart from joint lock position he started them off in the next best position. I have seen premature stoppages before and they are part of the game. I'm sure that the integrity of Eric Heinz is such that he would not stop a fight to give a fighter an advantage. He certainly wouldn't not stop a fight if he thought a fighter could be injured. |
Beth
said:
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... I look forward to the rematch. Hopefully next time the ref will just let Luke break his arm...rather than help him out of it. |
Rex P.
said:
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... I did not see the fight but from what I have heard and read it seems like it was a legit misunderstanding by the ref (heinz) and he gave both parties a chance to end the fight by letting it continue. HE DID RESTART LUKE IN A VERY DOMINANT POSITION, so maybe after a few days you will feel better about this situation as Luke had a chance to capitalize on great position from the restart. Maybe a rematch is the most natural and easiest manner to resolve this issue because forum fighting rarely solves anything. I also think Eric Heinz is one of the best refs in the region and that reffing mma fights is very tough and every ref in the world makes mistakes including misunderstanding the fighters. At a recent show Herb Dean did not hear the round timer and let the fight go on for too long. It happens. I have fought for 14 promotions and Steve Alley has been one of the best to deal with. Again a rematch could be the best answer for you. I know Kehlin, Lee and myself will be working alot of armbar escapes and this fight should help Luke analyze his techniques from side control top position. Big props to Honstien, very impressive transition! |
Kick Down MMA
said:
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... I appreciate the points made by JR Gordon on this matter but anyone and I mean anyone that thinks ANY promoter has anything to do with that is mistaken so and as far as fighter safety? The Kick Down has one of if not the most pristene reputation for even matches but the point here is this. The fight went on and both fighters had an equeal chance to win and the other fighter got an arm bar and actually tapped. I was told by the Wyo Ground P that Luke trained there Sunday morning and if that is the case there isn't nearly as much wrong as pointed out Jeff. And for you to say you were shined on by me? The only thing said to you or anyone by me is the exact same thing i WILL SAY NOW OR EVER.............I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. And you have paid what dues? I/we have done more shows than any in the region and certainly have admittedly made our own mistakes but this is one even though I can take blame because it is my promotion but it is still something I have nothing to do with. And to keep saying that "we" made a """" call as you put it.......obviously fighters might question what you know about this sport if you call yourself a promoter. I/we have ties to nearly every organization in the sport and I have worked for many. It seems to me if you knew what you were talking about these comments made here would not exist. And I sure don't think anyone is blowing anything up anyones ass here. JR does not work for me he writes even for your show. I do hope though for your sake that there is NEVER any little thing wrong on your show like a premature stoppage or maybe even a referee appointed by the state does something that someone considers a bad call and then you have to answer to someone that thinks you personally should have gotten in there and done something or maybe by sitting at ringside looking through the cage fence you should have just jumped in there and taken control instead of letting competant people do what they have been doing sure as hell longer than you. Just because you bought a ticket (and many have been free)that doesn't make you an authority. In fact how many shows have you done in your "I paid my dues" statement? I tried to call you and you didn't answer but if EVER you want to debate the merits of my integrity or that sort of thing I will gladly meet you face to face for a short discussion on that. Also don't make statements about people that did NOT say what you printed Damond Clark did not admit a thing as I spoke with him even today. This is unfortunate because Luke R is as stated a class act that anyone would be proud to have on their show as I was but to make this out to be as you have is WRONG. I feel badly for the situation but he as did the other fighter had an equal opportunity to win. As far as the other illegal mistakes made they were accounted for and addressed and the fight went on. The worst of it is that there is anything negative being discussed here. I know I never want that...........hell I would like it to be perfect every time but it is not. We as a promotion try our level best to do the best we can for the fighters and the sport and I really don't think even you Jeff can question that. If this was done in fighter safety then Luke also will have another day soon that he can fight. Steve Alley |
camozzi7
said:
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... haha that herb dean not hearing the bell was no mistake. i was there. off the subject |
camozzi7
said:
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... HELL YA. THE WHOLE CROWD HEARD THE BELL. AND ON THE DVD HE STARTS TO STOP THE FIGHT THEN PULLS AWAY AND LETS THE ELBOWS LAND |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... yeah I watched that s**t. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the boxing commish not involved in MMA there, and the promoters kind of run their own show? |
chuck daly13
said:
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... hi everybody chuck here, i was at the fights and had a talk with eric during intermission right after the fight in question.on tues. befor the fights this weekend there was a new rules clinic going on.it seems there will be some new rules soon this being one.these rules are being looked at between now and july, to see which ones they want to keep.one is no fighter should talk to the referee during a fight unless asked, or it will be looked at as a verbal submission.i dont like the rule of taking certian decisions away from the referee if it has anything to do with the safty of the fighters.i do believe the armbar was fully sunk in and we have to take into the fact that this was a younger fighter we are talking about as well.but certian calls have already been made, and these fights are over so we continue on.pro fighters have the right to chance an injury, amateurs shouldnt, for the safty of a fighter it should stay with the ref.judgement call, i would have stoped it, even if it had been one of my guys.hopefully the commission leaves future decisions to the refs.congrats to all fighters on a job well done, great night,outstanding promotion,lots of fun. |
Luke Rehurek
said:
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... I think everybody has lost sight of the reason for the event, FUN. Amateur fights are not paid and we do this for fun. I had fun, im sure Kehlin had fun. Now please don’t ruin it for the both of us. Steve Alley runs a good show and Eric Heinz is a good ref. I’m not mad, so no one else has to be either. I did do a little training at Wyoming ground and pound on Sunday and I thank them for their hospitality. I hope that everyone will cool down and let it go. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... Wow, some serious sour grapes here. Bottom line...the ref makes the calls. There is no questioning Eric's integrity - there was nothing shady about the call. Eric did make a mistake (taking Kehlin's words for a verbal submission) so he did the best he could under the rules - he gave Luke dominant position. Did it suck for Luke, hell yeah, but he should've finished the arm lock better. He had enough time as they were in arm lock position for what seemed a lengthy time to me. Kehlin was slick enough to avoid full extension. Either way, the DVD will be done by the end of the week and everyone can see what happened for themselves. I haven't captured those tapes yet or I would comment on the footage. I'll try to get that done tonight. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... I just watched the footage...Kehlin's arm was bent (curled/protected) the whole time. The stoppage was due his words being misunderstood. |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Maybe I should have show in wyoming, so i can understand were you are coming from?Look Steve if you had one of your family members on my show and my Ref made bad call, in wyoming I would at the very least came to you with some kind of empathy such a bad call.Here in Denver the refs have Joeseph to answer to.Maybe my terminology should be explained.( Lame )Me and 12 other people driving to Casper all for my son in-law to get shaft. (Shady)Questionable Ref Decision. Wheres empathy and accountability. Anybody in the sport would understand that. I have spent my money at your shows for years,that would all be in vein if I deserve anything less.(payed my dues)Understanding! |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... Shannon, always great having your skills to help clear things up (i.e. The last Big House show, the Craven-Heinz hit, this past weekend). Thanks for all you do for the local scene. And Luke, kudos to you big man for putting things in perspective. |
Kick Down MMA
said:
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... Jeff......empathy yes. I spoke with Luke and I did not until this posting today know that he is any relative of yours and that is not my point and I don't think you get it still. I/you or any other promoter do not and should not have anything to do with this. Unfortunate yes. Shady NO. With all of your negative comments here about all I should have done....what the hell else can be done except exactly what I did. I spoke to the fighter and do you know what he said? I would like to fight again if you would have me and of course I said I would do all I could to make sure that there would not be any controversy........like anyone in my position should do not really knowing if it would happen or not because once again I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. Here is the odd thing Jeff. You have fought in the promotion in Casper and there sure were no problems there. So I ask you again other than what was said by me personally to the fighter(not you) what other duties do I have here with the exception of trying to make sure there is no controversy and everyone gets a fair shake? Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing for the betterment of the sport and the specific promotions we represent? Hell if I drove the 300 miles there family or not I would want to see the best outcome for whoever it is and I do understand yours or anyones frustration but the perspective should be known that I recognize that mistakes are made and I will always try to do my best to correct them if they exist or continue to happen. If you look at any promotion in this or any other region there is a mistake made in every one. There is no 1 promotion immune to it. Hopefully case closed. Steve Alley |
PCFJeff
said:
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... If any body buys this load,they have not read anything.Im OK does not sound like TAP! a GOOD REF does not stop fight with a curled protected arm.Is the ref not looking at facial expressions.I will personally pay Steve for any copy of DVD for anybody that wants to see this load of s**t!I thought ringside Jason said that Kehlin had double jointed arm. Im confused. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... You know, it was unfortunate the way things went down but...it would have been equally (and maybe more so)unfortunate if the fight had been stopped by mistake against Roszel. These things happen. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... It seems everyone's gotten to speak their 'peace' on this subject, I vote to move on and let's get focused on this weekends shows. Friday Night - Battlequest in Denver, Saturday Night - Steel City Rumble in Pueblo, and The WFC in Denver. Game on! |
JASON.M
said:
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... Well what I was saying when I said that he was double jointed was that his arm was pretty straight but he sat up and stacked Luke just like he should have. Jeff its time to let this just be.... Luke was on here already and spoke his mind and he unlike you seems pretty classy. As Luke said he does do this for fun some times you win some times you lose. |
Kehlin Roszel
said:
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... On the one with Alexander and Swortwood it said it was in the second round i'm not to sure but i believe that it was round one |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Yea case closed. I know everybody makes mistakes. When people make mistakes, that does not take away accountability. Because Luke accepted something he could not change,does not make you right Steve. I deserved a little more than your answer and your backside.Thats what light fire under my ass. if you dont feel you owe me and my family empathy. Than you are not the stand up guy you express. And if you do not respect my dollar,as a fan than it is you who does not get it.Enough said. |
mrmusclemaker
said:
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... Damn jeff. You need a lesson in Professionalism . Give it updude. I can see why I would not bother to attend one of your promotions. And Would not want to put a fighter inh one either . Get over yourself man. |
Adam CCW
said:
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... mind when he talks b/c he know the game. Mr. Musclemaker Jeff show is the show for your fighter to be on to make the big time. keep that in mind. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... MMABuzz is NOT the place to come on and air your personal issues. Jeff had a gripe about a call at a recent show and the promoter, and both fighters came on and gave their opinion of the call. I think they've all agreed to disagree..or so it seems. We're moving on. Don't waste your time typing 'YOU SUCK' emails...they won't be published. |
ERIC HEINZ
said:
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... Wow thanks for all the talk and here is my side of the story pal!!!!!!! As a ref I take all coments to heart and I do love them goooood, bad and ugly!! Like yours! As an AMATEUR there whole life is in my hands!! The kid that was in the so called full on arm bar which was not a full arm bar, I don't know what you were watching!! Stated to me that he was OK I as a ref of an Amateur fight I took it as a possssssiable verbal tap!! SO YES I STOPPPPED THE FIGHT AT THAT POINT!!! NOW REMEMBER AMATEUR FIGHTERS MAKE AMATEUR MISTAKES!!! THE Kid that was in the so called arm bar full on stated what he said again I WAS OK.. AS A REF OF A AMATEUR FIGHT AND THIS WAS NOT MY FIRST FIGHT PAL!! Did what needed to be done! I restarted the fight in side countrol WHERE YOU ARE TO RESTART A FIGHT WHEN NEEDS BE WHEN ONE PERSON HAD CONTROL BEFORE THE STOP.. HUMM BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT CUZ I SURE AS HECK DID NOT SEE YOU AT THE CLINIC WITH DOC HAMILTON ON TUESDAY NIGHT IN COLO OR DID I SEE YOU AT THE OTC ON SUNDAY FOR THE FILA REFS CLINIC.. If you had been at either one of these clinics you may just have a bit more knowledge about the sport mister! Your guy was placed in a dominate position and he ended up tapping out to guess what an arm bar!! You can say I stopped the fight and I will take blame when needs be, but on this one the life of a fighter is more important than my job pal!! When the fight was over I had a long talk with the fighter that said I am ok to let him know that he is not to say a word unless he is in trouble or asked by a ref (ARE YOU OK GIVE ME A SIGN) So to you that is a crap talker get your facts straight before you run you mouth on the internet!! Or better yet I am planning 3 clincs in Colo in the near future maybe you could come and learn the MMA game since you don't know much but claim to know all!! THATS MY 2 CENTS WORTH PAL AND LEARN HOW TO SPELL MY NAME TOO!! HEHE SEE YA ALL AND THANKS FOR ALL THE SUPORT I HAVE BEEN CRYING MY SELF TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT SINCE THAT YAHOO WROTE THAT!! HEHE |
Dinstitute
said:
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... Eric; Please post it on this board when the referree clinics are going to be held. This is great knowledge to have for all trainers out there. |
craven
said:
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... HAHAHAHA damn wish i was there.I would have had a field day with this one.There is always two sides to each story.This sounds a lil strange comin from me but I know eric is a very accomplished and good ref if a mistake was made well it happens eric is human too(tho some of you don't think so)lol |
ERIC HEINZ
said:
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... O YEA one more thing on the Main event with Pete and TImmmmmmmy there was an illegal kick from that darn Tim guy!! LOL! But guess what I the REF did not see it both fighters in this case were like yes it did happen and they both I REPEAT THEY BOTH WERE COOL WITH IT.. We can not see everything man! Did I feel bad yes! Would a point deduction changed the outcome? (IN NO WAY WOULD IT HAVE) Yes we all make mistakes and this was a minaaaaaaaaaal one. When 2 fighters are rolling around on the ground and a kick gets in to one of them and I see it THAT IS IN THE FACE I would have stopped the fight and assessed the infraction it may have been a warning or it could have been a point deduction or a DQ! In this case it would have been a warning from me. Thanks again to all the great fighters who put there arsss on the line for all to enjoy.. So there you have it any other questions you may email me at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Eric I am not your pal.You sure are a smart ass. If you want to skate around your mistake,thats cool.You said your self and it was previously stated. An amature is not to say a word . Im done with this. Its all gravy!!! PAL!!!! |
PCFJeff
said:
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... Eric here is some accountability ,maybe i should have not posted anything on net pissed. People are taking my sincerity for my family,as insult towards people I have no beef with. My chosen words for first write up,were not proper in the least.I was speaking from emotion.My legitimate beef went south. I was wrong for saying you should not be reffing.Some accountability would have been cool. I came to the both of you,before posting anything.I was not happy with either of your statements. That is all ! Ouch that hurt... |
Kick Down MMA
said:
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... Jeff.....I was in Kansas for the last 40 hours and just returned and if you read my last post what I meant to say is that I have empathy for anyone that would drive there or anywhere to have ANY controversy. This is never what I want for my promotion or any for that matter. I will personally try to avoid controversy but really after it starts in the ring or cage we as promoters do not and should not have a say in ANY of it. If any member of my family had a situation like this happen I would not like it but in this specific case there is another day to fight again to work on Lukes amatuer record in perhaps going further with the sport. If you read the recent post by me (prior to this one) I thought I explained my position and offered my sorrow for ANY controversy. If you feel there is more I can do you should call me. Now may we please close this? I am still glad he fought on the show and Luke has great future potential. Steve Alley |
mikejon420
said:
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... i saw the fight. i was even in the third row and the fight was bull. Luke took down Kehlin right away. tryed for several submissions then finnaly locked in the armbar. Which was in tight and his arm was straight (watch the dvd).The rules for amature fighting is that a ref can stop the fight without a tap if he feels the fighter is in trouble. If the fighter said he was ok that sounds nothing like a tap in anyway,why would the ref stop it.(because he said it sounded like a tap, he though also said that the arm barr wasnt close at all) so if the arm barr isnt close at all and he is saying im ok. that is a load of bull that the ref did that. The ref did a pretty bad job at the very last fight were there were kicks and knees to the head while the fighter was on the ground. To me they were good fights but there was a couple that screwed people, but thats the name of the game but a ref shouldnt make lies up for everybad call |
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