KCrown
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With the onslaught of local MMA shows there is also an onslaught of new fighters. And as we've seen recently many of the debut fighters have fared well, while many of them have not. This leads us to the question of the week.
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... The hardest part about this question is the independent. Who is to say that they are not training well and have all that it takes? Requiring the fighters to join a gym or something similar could turn off some really good talent from entering the local scene. It takes away the anticipation of the unknown. The promoter should go see a training session or watch a gauntlet (like a football try out but for MMA) to see the skill level that is needed in an opponent so that the fight is entertaining and not just a blow out. I agree with Chris though, don't even try it if you have not been doing something. A bar brawler might have a punchers chance but the being in SHAPE is truly a must. So, I believe it depends. If a fighter is involved with a gym/team he/she needs to listen to the coach because they are representing much more then themselves, and the pride of the TEAM is bigger than any fight. BUT if an independent is truly doing what it takes to get ready then don’t stop them from taking the chance. Who knows they might just make it. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... also promoters should not have "independents' fight, no offense to anyone who considers themselves that, but if you are new, and never fought before, you should not be "independent' and be fighting. Also i wish there was some kind of liecening for teaching MMA, because then it would kinf of weed out the places that now say they teach MMA, and have no idea what they are doing. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... BTW I just read KC Crowns post, i think its ok for established fighters to be "independent" because honestly a lot of bigname fighters are nto membe rof teams, they just throw camps together, but for a first time guy, there is honestly, IMO, no way they can train for every asp[ect of the sport. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... I think Chris is on target. Especially on the mental prep. That's one of the things I always prep a fighter on - how you're going to FEEL when you step in the ring. It can make or break you from the start. Independant fighters really bother me. Not that they can't have talent but... if you're training yourself it's kinda like going to court without a lawyer. I taught myself a lot over the years but that's just it, over the years (many of them). And of course, I've had the pleasure of training with current UFC fighters. When I coach someone today, they learn in 3-6 months what took me years to learn. There's no way an independant could compete with someone I've trained for 6 months, no way. Everyone has a punchers chance but that will only get you so far. There are WAY too many shows around here and it is obviously hurting the scene. Support the ones that are reputable and save your fighters for when they're truely ready. There's no need to rush anything just for the sake of having fighters on a card (representing your gym - which will only hurt your reputation anyway). |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... one thing I always respected about Spencer Hooker, was that he made sure you were mentally there, and he did that a lot with me, and I didn't even fight. I will tell you, that there was one person in our gym who wanted to fight, and was going to be givent he opprotunity, but then he just started pretty much wussing out. I mean I liked the dude and all, but he would pratice for liek 20 mins, then go lift weights, or he just woudln't try while rolling. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... One local promoter told me that if he was going to put an independent on his card (that he didn't know) he wanted to either see the guy train personally or see video of the guy fighting. This promoter said he was done putting debuts in the ring that he didn't know or at least know the gym. I agree with that. I don't think a fighter needs to join a gym to get credibility. See Manuel Gallardo. I don't agree with blaming promoters for the quality of fighters on their cards either. If a guy trains at a gym and that gym says he's ready then I say trust the trainer. If a certain gym is throwing guys in there that aren't ready then I think that gym won't last too long. Who wants to train at a gym where they let you get your ass kicked all the time? I agree with Shannon's line 'There are WAY too many shows around here and it is obviously hurting the scene.'. Take this past weekend for example. I think you could have combined those two shows into one and made a great show. Especially since both shows were only an hour or so away. And a couple weeks ago there was the RMBB show and Ring of Fire show on back to back nights. I think those two could of combined efforts and had themselves a great show as well. But, I'm not a promoter so I don't know what really happens behind the scenes. All I know is that it's hard for me to cover so many shows and it's hard to build 'buzz' for so many shows going on. Gonna be interesting to see how the next couple months pan out. Lots of shows going on. |
Jeff PCF
said:
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... I will tell you from my own personal experience. Growing up I was in numerous street fights.I faired well in most of them. I told Steve Alley to set me up a fight. I have been Steve's VIP for years. So I fought Steven Polman 1-2 in Kick Down Casper,last year. I had trained two weeks, I was desperate to see how i would do. I was winning the all of the first round,not in technical fashion mind you. At the end of first round,I had lost my air Steven took over , got mount and pounded me out for the victory. To me I disrespected the game,and it bit me in the ass.Without Cardio & Training you should not be in there.6 Month and a experienced Trainer saying they are ready.... |
Dinstitute
said:
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... This is a vicious cycle that we are in. Shows are thrown because there are a lot of guys that want to fight. However the calibre of the fighters is not there so the shows come off looking bad. Years ago I talked to Mike Miles out of Canada. He is a world class Muay Thai trainer with one of the toughest teams I have ever seen (12 fighters at the 2005 IKF Nationals and 10 National titles). Anyway, I asked him what his requirement was to fight for him. He told 6 months of HARD training minimum. His philosophy was that when a fighter went into the ring he was representing more than just himself. He had the team, the school, and the trainer behind him or her and good or bad it reflected on all of them. You guys can all name the schools that you take with more seriousness than others. If a promoter sets up a fight against someone from Agoge, Fight Factory, or Defense Institute, you can bet that for the most part, win or lose, the guy will be skilled, have good cardio, and will have the presence that all the fans are looking for. If a fighter is an independent beginner, then there is always a question. But most of the time the saying goes "This fights going to suck, it's an independent." Sometimes we are proven wrong, but more often we are not. Ask the fighters; "would you rather face someone from an established school or an independent?" |
papa doc
said:
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... I started training with Eric when his requirement was 2 kickboxing matches prior to an MMA match. I did't like it but I respected it. I understand where he was coming from and in hindsight I wish I would have done it. Now a days you will never find a heavy weight kickboxing match so I wish I could have at least tested my stand up against someone without worrying about the ground as well. Though I ended up never fighting due to some surgeries and such I am totally confident that I was ready due to the time that Eric made me worry about training instead of getting a fight. On a few occasions he would present me with an oppurtunity to fight. He would say stuff like I need to see you training more or come spar more if you want to fight on this card. I would end up getting lazy and not show up. So of course I didn't fight on the card. Instead of being mad at him I know that if I wasn't going to show some dedication I wan't going to fight. Now that I am back in there I have a different view onn the whole thing and I appreciate not getting sent in their. I do think that 6 months would be a good time to gauge a fighter and start refining his skills. Is he going to go out there and become a superstar? Probably not, but at least he won't get himself killed or injured and he could probably put on a good show. Everyone knows that sometimes even if you lose, if you put on a good show your name will still be out there. I also think it would be a good amount of time to weed out the guys who are serious and those who are just there so they can put a Tapout sticker on the back of their truck. I can't wait for "Never Back Down" to come out. I can only imagine how many people are going to get a hard on about the movie only to go in to a gym and realize that it will take more than a cleverly edited montage and some motivational music to turn you into a real fighter. I am not going to lie though, i will probably rent it. Maybe we should just plan a field trip and everyone go together. That way it could be "research" and we can sit around critique yet secretly love the movie. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... There is a lot of correctness here. I dissagree with Mike on promoters not being responsible for the quality of the fighters. It's more than obvious that you can't rely on some of the teams/gyms/coaches to do the right thing. The promoter HAS GOT to take a vested interest in the quality of fighter they put on their show. Just as Eric was saying, you kinda know what to expect from certain gyms. If you're dealing with a gym outside of the "respected" ones, as a promoter, you better be taking a close look at what you're getting. That's a big part of what seperates a quality promoter from a wannabe. Again, I'm going to refer to Steve Alley here. On most KD shows you'll see a fair share of debut fighters. These debut fighters usually bring it just as hard as the pros. I think this is a testament to Steve's willingness to get out there and scout what he's getting. Even if he doesn't personally see the fighter I can assure you he's dealing with a respected camp and not settling for cut rate talent. It's well known which promoters put the time and effort into their cards and which ones do not. I think we're going to start seeing a couple of these shows dissapearing. The shows that aren't on the level WILL lose attendence. There's just too much competition for it not to happen. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... How dare you disagree with me! *deletes all posts* The one thing a promoter can control is HOW MANY debut fighters they put on a card. If I'm paying 25 bucks and up for a ticket I'd really like to see some seasoned fighters but also wouldn't mind seeing a few debut fighters. My point about promoters is that I don't think they have as much control over a figher being "ready" as compared to that fighter's coach. If Brad Gumm calls Steve Alley and says I gotta debut fighter for you do you think Steve Alley is going to say 'well, let me come check him out first'? I think Steve will ask about his skill level so he can match him up correctly, but I don't think Steve will turn his fighter down. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... well I agree with both of you on points, I do think a little scouting is required, but if usually a gym brings out good peeps, I doubht so, but if it is a new mma gym, then yeah. |
Dinstitute
said:
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... Let's compare the two shows that took place recently. The Kickdown and one on Friday night. They both had about the same amount of debut fighters. The Kickdown may have had a little less. The Kickdown's debut fighters looked great and the entire show was phenominal. The show on Friday, from what I heard, had a lot of beginner mistakes from the debut guys and the entire show was "blah." That all falls back on the promoter and matchmaker. Kickdown is a much higher level show. They don't take chances on "unknowns" or if they do they keep them to a minimum. Chris is right. A lot of schools don't care or don't know if their fighter is ready. "If you are a gym putting fighters on a card with less than even 3 months of training you are doing a real disservice to your students." I'll write more on this later. |
KCrown
said:
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... My explanation of Independent was not very good. I believe that a fighter MUST have the skills to compete or they will either get hurt or hurt someone else. I do not believe that an Independent should be a "nobody" or a "never have fought" but if they are not affiliated with a gym it should not disqualify them. If they have had different styles of training and have been successful in those individual disciplines they very well could be the exception. The exception I believe is the biggest part of this. Most “couch potatoes” are NOT the exception and are just trying to look cool, with the Tapout sticker or UFC shirt. (I agree totally with Papa Doc) The promoter needs to find out if this new fighter is able to uphold THEIR (the promotion’s) name, not just a gym or a group of guys. If the promoter feels that the fighters will represent themselves, the card and the other competitors well, it is to their best interest to get the fight scheduled. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... Good point KCrown. I think it's pretty safe to say that certain cards are known for certain fights/fighters. One example, the Kickdown promotions and Anthony Werner. Now Anthony doesn't win a lot but the dude has heart and always puts up a good fight and has such a great attitude about it. To me he represents what a 'Kickdown' fight should be. Ring of Fire represents 'next level' fighters. Guys and girls who are on the verge of bigger shows (UFC, EliteXC, WEC, etc). Or even guys who were on the bigger shows and looking to make their way back (i.e. Jason MacDonald). Rocky Mountain Bad Boyz (to me) represents fighters who love the whole stigma of fighting. Guys like Nick Bushman, John Cronk, Travis Sherman. These are guys who seem to eat, breathe and sleep fighting. But also like some of the 'flare' of fighting, the ring entrance, putting on a good show, making sure the fans have fun. A promoter needs to realize that the person they put on their card must represent that show. That's why if I was a promoter I'd fight like hell to get: Jose Murrillo, Manuel Gallardo, John Cronk, James Funny, Spencer Hooker, Eric Fagyas, Bryant Craven, Drew Knapp, Gabe Charbaneu, Mike Chickering, Willie Jackson, and the newest up and comer Louis Lloyd. These types of guys on my show. To me these guys would represent what my production would want to be. |
mrmusclemaker
said:
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... Wow this is some exellent reading. I waited to post because I knew the majority of my thoughts would be posted. I have to say Eric prettu much stole my thunder.... I will say this though all promoters will put a debut fighter on their card if they have confidence in the fighter. Josh had his first fight on ROF. He had been training a very short time. But because of his wrestling backround and people seeing him train along with Drew talking to Sven they took a chance on him. NOTE: There is nothing like a ROF show. Now that being said when it comes to debut fighters most promoters stay with a sure thing. The sure thing being the Dojo. We all look at indapentent debut fighters as one in the w collum for our guys if someone should match them up. No one takes an indy fighter with no experience seriously. Most are thugs and maybe even tough guys. Fact is the ones that have talent are swooped up by someone and never fight a second indy fight. Hell I have seen them come in with no corners or support at all. This is not a tough man contest. LOL If you want to fight spend the time training. Everyone is always in too much of a hurry. To much of a hurry to get the first fight , too much of a hurry to turn pro. too much of a hurry to fight the toughest guys. Relax take your time..... train hard , get some skills, and never never never fight out of shape. Conditioning is the one thing we all can effect regardless of experience.... :-) |
Beast
said:
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... I like what a lot of you all are saying. What drove all of this home for me was Papadoc's reference to fighting a couple to a few Muay Thai bouts prior to fighting MMA. I whole-hearted agree with that rule. That is what my coaches are doing with me out here in DC. It takes a whole hell of a lot to get the Lloyd Irvin stamp of approval, as we've had guys come in here, in the month I've been training with these guys, with the idea that they were going to fight right off the bat. After one training session, we've never seen them again. Hell, I'm humbled every time I step into the "office" so I know this school is for real. I do have to give props to Eric, though, as he was the first person I'd heard mention the six month wait-time. Those rules and standards are just one sign of a true coach/trainer. I look forward to returning to CO to fight again. I've already put the bug in my coaches ears about how hot CO is. So it may not be too long before we start flying out there to represent!! Getting back on subject, for those newbs out there who just want to jump in the ring and swing for the fences, listen to these guys on here!!! Especially the established coaches who don't make it a habit to pump smoke up one's ass. They know what they are talking about. And Mike: Why didn't you put my name in that list!?! I'm deeply hurt and offended! Now I'm gonna go home, sit on my bed, drink some juice, and eat some cheetos. You guys take care for now. I'm gonna go nap. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... *waves fist in air* damn you eric DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!! ok so what were we talking about again? |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... Eh, I've never seen you fight Beast or maybe I would add you to that list. You could of made that list just based upon your posting skills alone...but then I would be a hypocrite and no one wants to call themselves out like that. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... Yeah Zacher get off Eric's nuts. I bet your going to say next that you invented the phrase 'If you want art...get a brush', right? *shakes head* some people.... |
mrmusclemaker
said:
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... ya some people sheesh! LMAO I have a brush! hmmmm LOL Ya I make myself laugh |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... Speaking of Eric, kudos to him for coming up with a great question of the week. He deserves a prize, how about mrmuscle's brush? |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... dude, way back in 3rd grade I would push down kids in arts and crafts and throw their paint brush and be like "You want art bitch..huh!" I always noticed some guy writing that down...hmmm |
mrmusclemaker
said:
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... See being from NY I learned early that sharpening the end of the brush made a great weapon. Poke ur eye out HA! |
Kate
said:
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... I agree on a fighter needing atleast 6 months training before he is of value of being on a card. Honestly, a fighter with less training is just going to go out and brawl.. he simply hasnt had the repetition necessary and gotten the muscle memory for a great performance. If I wanted to see a brawl then Ide go to a bar, but I dont want to see that, If Im paying, then I want to see skilled fighters in a live chess match. Our gym has guys train anywhere between 6 and 9 months before their debut.. ususally the 6 month debut guys have former competitive experience- such as wrestling or boxing or even being an "import" fighter from another gym. We encourage all of our fighters to compete in jiu-jitsu tourneys and boxing smokers to get competitive experience if they have none. Then guys have to go through a 5-6 week camp to get ready with an increased training and cardio regiment... Its just our gyms policy, that if you are going to fight, you should have something to show besides "toughness", and they should have the cardio to show that skill for three full rounds. I know our standard is a bit high, and certain promoters have told us were nuts for holding it that way, and others really respect us for it. Regardless of what the promoters think, the fighters always know that they gave it their genuine best, and that goes a longer way than the few minutes they will actually compete for. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... mrmuslce's comments.. always good for a 'ha.that's funny...wait maybe he's serious'.. *writes on hand 'note to self, don't piss off the muscleman'* |
haumana2000
said:
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... Ok, so I figured I will weigh in on the subject as I was at the fights and had a fighter on there (Kreg "im bringin sexy back" Hartle). I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned from this. I absolutely agree that no matter the "time-trained" a fighters coaches should let him know honestly when he is ready despite what the fighter "wants". Some guys may train for a year, but when they go home at night they leave it there at the gym.. Others come for 5 months but live, and breathe training every day, especially if they have a prior background. Now that said, there were a couple fighters that night (both very cool guys) who signed themselves up, but had no cornermen. I like them both, and agreed to be there for them as I have been for many others in the past., both lost and had a hard time wind wise, and could use work. (Note: I applaud their courage because getting in there is half the battle) .. Now the lesson, for them should be (since i had asked them to come down on many occasions prior) to look at kregs, kyles, shawns,tyrones, (and some of the other guys whove been there awhile), condition and physical reward for the time they put in and the difference between someone who "thinks they are ready" and just wants to fight.. Now one of them is a former national wrestling champ and I figured he would do quite well, but ring rust will get the best of ANYBODY, much like the guy who says he got his black belt in 77' but hasnt trained it since.. Is he still a black belt??? Come on fighters there are a lot of gyms, now with more opportunities to cross train than ever before.. find a gym get in one, and listen to those around you before you sign yourselves up. your people are there to ensure both your safety and that you represent well.. lets make it happen and raise the bar for the sport in the state.. (to those guys, ya live and you learn, dont dwell, redeem yourselves by training hard... its criticisms best revenge. |
drew s
said:
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... I will speak from experience on this one. I trained for about 2 months and was eager to get in the ring/cage. My opponent ended up being cameron dollar when he had only 3 or so fights. That fight lasted all of about one min. That fight also taught me alot about myself and what i needed to work on. So these guys who come off the street wanting to jump in there need to get there butts in the gym and train there as? off and ya take a kickboxing fight. It will teach you alot that first fight. ring awareness and dealing with emotions. |
ShannonBerry
said:
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... Mike, your reference to Brad Gumm's gym and Steve only prove my point...Steve CAN rely on Brad's word because he is one of the top trainers in Denver. That's the difference I'm talking about. Some promoters CAN NOT get fighters from top gyms because they have made a bad name for themselves. |
what
said:
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... Papa doc- I like the tap out sticker comment, that was funny. Unfortunately I think it's a sad reality. I've seen a few fighters get thier butt handed to them because they were not ready to be in the ring. Before my first mma fight, I had to a thai rules bout on a Thursday night before the promoter would let me go in front of a Saturday night crowd and fight mma because he did'nt know me. Unfortunately, not all promoters do "feeder shows" to scout talent for weekend cards. A lot of fighters don't care who they fight as long as they get to. That's part of the warrior spirit that drives us all. That being said, the trainers and managers, who's job it is to look after their fighters anyway, are ultimately responsible for whoever wears their shirt into the ring or cage. |
Dinstitute
said:
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... To respond to Shannon: I won't provide fighters to certain promotions because of who they are, or they haven't been established. It's just one of those things that I don't want to give credence to those that will try to make themselves bigger that what they are. The name dropping crowd. |
Psycho
said:
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... i think your coach and team should drill you eal hard on every aspect of the fight game and if they feel your ready then go for it.. but what i hate the most is posers who train just to say they fight mma! and thats p**sy s**t if you just want to get a killer workout thats fine but dont try to be something your not |
Dinstitute
said:
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... You are always going to have those that say they are more than what they are. I've known people that said they were "professional football players" when they play some pickup games with their friends or played for the CS semi-pro team. Or they guys that say they are athletes and they're counting the pool or bowling league they're on. |
MMAbuzz
said:
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... This thread was NOT a knock against any promoter or matchmaker. More of a thread to answer a lot of questions that I get from fighters asking 'am I ready to step in the ring?'. |
Show Stopper
said:
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... There shouldn't be a minimum level to qualify because I wouldn't qualify jk!!! I took my first fight with only a week a a half training but I think it depends on the fighter. If he chooses to go in there and either get his ass kicked or kick ass then he should be prepared for the consequences!!! |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... to Psycho, man you know what's funny is when peopel would stop by teh gym, and they would be asking everyone "hey when you fighting" and it would get to me, and I would be like "uh..I'm just here to stay in shape" and I woudl feel like the worlds biggest jackass, lol. So many times I was tempted to be lik e "oh you know, I have some..uh secret MMA event in China Town, and uh.." |
guest
said:
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... I dont think there should be any minumum training to fight,as far as the decision to fight.the fighter should make that choice and obviously needs to be prepared,a coach or promotor shouldnt have to make the decision if your ready.Ive seen many guys that have it in the gym but not the cage.A fighter should make his or her own choice to fight whether there ready or not will be there path. How will we see a new good talent if not? Sure there may be some scrubs, so deal with it and quit the crying. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... I don't think it's crying guest, btu hey if you want to see the CO scene full of dudes who look like they have no idea, then more power to you. |
guest
said:
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... Ive seen many fight debuts in the UFC that were pretty lame too.Its just a part of the fight we have to deal with.Will it ever be perfect.I think not.I do agree that us as fighters better be prepared to enter that cage or else get ready to get your ass handed to you.Between pro. and amat. at least we get a mix and opportunity. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... While I agree with some UFC fights being lame, I am not talking about fights being lame, I am talking about having very very basic skills when getting into the ring/cage. |
SA
said:
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... First of all this is a great topic and I will spend a moment to address the Independent, The promoter, The fighter. Jeff Smith made a comment here that he fought for the Kick Down in Casper against a fighter who he was beating until he got tired and lost. What he did not tell you is that the fight was a PERFECT match and both were close and it was very exciting from the fans point of view. He was winning and the other fighter turned things around and won by strikes and a referee stoppage. I do NOT believe there should be a minumum time to say a person can fight. If everyone does their homework and investigates then matches properly......and that is the key-it is the match up that will keep the show and the fight interesting. I try and use this model that EVERY fighter has a chance to win at the Kick Down and it has served myself and fighters well over the 6 plus years and 48 shows done. As far as the Independent Fighter is concerned it used to mean that every one of them would get slaughtered-not anymore and my best case in point is Manuel Gallardo who is arguably one of the best fighters in this region. A former am champion and undefeated as a professional. The fact is there are many fighters that actually train with other camps and declare themselves to be independent because of affiliation or even a non willingness to join a team and pay dues. As far as the promotions are concerned and the shows...get used to many, many debut fighters because the sport is expolosive and you have to start somewhere. I have AlWAYS appreciated the debut fighters and I belive we have elevated many that first fought at the Kick Down. We should never knock a 1st time (or any fighter)fighter as they have to start out too. It is all about the match making. Even this show last Friday..........I was there and though it was not a 100% electric non stop event there were fighters that showed promise and they will get better. There were still 12 bouts for $25.00 and that is a SUPERB value when compared to other entertainment ideas. My vote even if I were not in the business would be to do all possible to elevate the debut fighters and I will continue to do that as I am always proud of them as I am of ANY fighter. They must be matched properly with their opponent and when done it really makes for a nice event with all of the things fans and fighters want. A hunger to win. Pride. Representation of Self and Team. Something to build a future with. The Kick Down usually has anywhere from 7 to 12 debut fighters on every show for years. The promotion has always been a place to start and continue in this region and beyond. I/we will continue as we have to do the same. With much respect to ALL. Steve Alley-Kick Down Promoter |
Beast
said:
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... Okay...there should be a block against those that come on here as "guests"!!! Those people annoy me! I'm feeling so angry right now! That and that damned Kreg "im bringin sexy back" Hartle! How dare he try to steal my thunder!!!! There is only one man bringing sexy back! And that is me!!! On a serious note, any "fighter" can show up to a show and say they want to fight, however, the promoter should know more about the fighter than just his name and such. If the promoter is worth a damn (beating the hell out of a dead horse!) he'll already have the coaches and trainers blessing to use a fighter, or, he's scouted the "fighter" already. Now...Chris...as a child, I detested bullies, therefore, you are being placed on my list of people I want to fight. Oh yes. I will introduce you to the Silverback style of fighting soon. Mike, I can respect your decision to not include me. Doesn't mean I like it, though! I'm GREAT!!! LOL! Eric...you are a wise one. Haumana...shame on you for endorsing that copyright infringer, Hartle!!! And speaking of Hartle, I'm coming for you!!! Only one can bring Sexy back! LOL. And now it's time to take my happy pills. |
ChrisZacher
said:
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... don't make me flying gogoplata on you. just ask spencer about that. That is, if you can understan dhis answer trough all his crying and babling. my flying gogoplata strikes fear in the hearts of men! |
adamm
said:
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... I could see boxing commissions stepping in here if we continue to see this type of problem with debut fighters and shows willing to just put 'anybody' in there to fill spots. The state could create a 180 day pre fight application. A new fighter would have to register 6 months prior to being allowed to fight, and coaches/cornerman would also have to be registered so the fighter has to be listed under an "official" training center. Look at the rules to be a USA amatuer boxer. The gym must be registered with USA boxing, the coach has to be certified, and each fighter must carry a passport that takes a little more time to get completed. I know that other states are regulating the amatuers with tough guidelines to get started, and to continue to fight. If fighters are getting in too early and safety starts to become and issue cause shows are willing to jump on these indie fighters to fill spots, out of safety concerns I could see the state getting involved. just my tought... |
Jeff PCF
said:
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... Thanks Steve and enjoyed the experience. It was a blast. My friend Raul Moreno also with two weeks training ,street fighter, had all Casper on there feet for three rounds. Both were good match up. If I had Cardio AND more training it would have been much more exciting. There is proof to all that is said, in these write ups. Having no experience , Being a Independent fighter does not make for a bad fight. But with the fighters with no experience, have to have a background in one of the arts.Or promoter takes gamble. |
chrisjones
said:
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... My personal opinion on this matter is that no one at my dojo is allowed to fight unless they have achieved a blue belt in jiu-jitsu. Most of my students take at least one year to do this. After that they must come to me and ask if they can fight. If we allow them then the real training begins. Conditioning is paramount 2-a days are common, then heavy stand up sparring, then rolling, then a blend of both. Even after all that they have to simulate the fight twice a week with circles. Circles consist of 5-5 minute rounds one minute rest fresh guy every round. If they make it through this then they are allowed to fight. None of my fighters are allowed to accept fights without my permission. No promoter is allowed to talk to my fighters without going through me first. The cage or ring will show all of your strengths and weaknesses. Competing will expose any lies. So trust me when I say take your time there is no hurry to fight. You will be more successful if you slow down and train properly. |
chrisjones
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... Sorry for a double post but if promoters want fighters with real solid fundamentals, solid conditioning, and solid coaching call me. (970)259-3398 durango martial arts |
Beast
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... Zacher...I will catch you in mid-flight, and execute a flying five-knuckle shuffle!!! YEAH!!! How do you like them apples!?! As for Mr. Jones...what gym/dojo do you operate? Who did you train under? CREDS MAN! I WANT CREDS!!! lol. |
mrmusclemaker
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... I believe Chris beat Cronk in Nove of last year... But i don't know the name of the gym |
chrisjones
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... I own durango martial arts and have a purple belt under marcus arelio. I have studied jiu jitsu since 1999 muy thai since 05 and have won numerous grappling tournaments. My pro mma record is 4-0 with all my opponents being finished in the first round. I started a school in durango about 2 years ago. Since I moved here I have become great friends with Floyd Sword and team jacksons. I am currently under Amilcar Cippili for jiu jitsu and will be testing for my brown belt soon. |
Dinstitute
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... In reference to the guest comment above (in quotes): "I dont think there should be any minumum training to fight, as far as the decision to fight, the fighter should make that choice and obviously needs to be prepared." Using that same rational, you should be able to play any professional sport, just because you want to. Be it football, basketball, or competitive skiing. "a coach or promotor shouldnt have to make the decision if your ready." The promoters are putting on a show for entertainment value. The better the value, the more fans you will have. This is why people are pushing to be on shows like the Kickdown and Ring of Fire. These two shows have their pick of fighters. If they decide to use someone suspect, and take a chance, they make sure the rest of the card is stellar so they don't get burned. "Ive seen many guys that have it in the gym but not the cage." You are correct, however that is where experience in the gym will bring you as close to the cage as possible. That experience comes with time. As I stated before; a minimum of 6 months (sorry Chris) To Steve Alley: Your fights have always been a benchmark for the other promotions to follow. You have always had solid fight cards even with debut fighters and I believe it's because you do your homework on fighters. I also think that the way you position your card does a lot for the fights as well. Steve was one of the first promoters to put a title fight as the initial fight, instead of saving them all for the end. These two things (amoung a lot of others) have made the Kickdown the success it is. |
KPEAZY
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... Hey Chris, Im going to have to stop by your gym when I come visit my parents. Where in Durango are you located? |
MMAbuzz
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... Hey Chris, what KPEAZY is really saying is 'add your gym to the MMABuzz School Directory, that way I can see a map of your school, see photos, and what time the gym is open, who trains there, etc. Also, Mike (who runs the site) is a really cool dude and everyone should be nice to him and buy him a beer at the fights'. Aww, thanks KP! |
chrisjones
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... The gym is located at 600 east second ave suite f but we are actually located right on college dr. next to the sushi places. |
papa doc
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... This is in response to guest's comment. If we let everybody who thought they were ready to fight get in there, it would look like an old school tough man competition. If we are going to do that then lets just go ahead and take the gloves off and put barbed wire up around the ring. Throw some ladders in there and multiple fighters. Though the carnage would be entertaining, I think the skill of the sport will go right out the window. Do I expect every fight to be electric? No....but I do expect there to be some skill in the ring. You mentioned earlier about lame UFC fights and you are right. But at the same time alot of the lameness is due to the fighters either being evenly matched technical fighters or two good fighters that know each others skills and are tentative to get caught making a dumb mistake. If the coaches aren't willing to take the time to asses, motivate, and educate the fighters well before they gete into the ring then they run the risk of injuring that fighter. Coaches have to protect the fighters from themselves sometimes. |
papa doc
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... Oh yeah, Mike, I have seen Beast fight before he deployed and he is pretty good. I am not sure what list your talking about but as long as it isn't suckiest fighter of the year then he might deserve to be on there. They don't call him Beast for nothing. |
papa doc
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... LOL, I think Beast needs to make a earlier trip back. I think he and zacher need to have a little "chat" |
guest
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... i do like the barbed wire idea..that would be cool..let me re-phrase.I do believe a fighter has to be trained and ready to battle..its just seems more rules keep getting added, soon you will have to graduate college to fight. Just steering up the pot,relax peeps The first barbed wire match Zacher VS Beast hell ill join the match too. |
drew s
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... "beast" where are you training now? good to hear you made it back safe. Thanks for serving our country buddy. Drew S |
Dinstitute
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... This is a repost from a comment over on the Friday Night fight results section that pertains to this question. written by peaches mcgee , March 11, 2008 hey.... let the fighters fight, who cares if its there debute or they arnt known or they are independant. i personaly think chuck does a good job at matching the fights |
ChrisZacher
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... I eat Barbed wire for breakfest, and I drink napalm. I can shoot a round up a knats ass from a thousand yards away. |
Dinstitute
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... Chris Get your quotes right "Be advised. I'm mean, nasty and tired. I eat concertina wire and piss napalm and I can put a round in a flea's ass at 200 meters. So why don't you go hump somebody else's leg, mutt face, before I push yours in." |
Beast
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... Ahem... Chris Zacher... I don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. How dare you make fun of my minty-fresh breath! M are truly fightin words right there! I rather like idea of a fight in a barbed wire cage. I'll even one up it: HELL IN A CELL!!!! Oh yes. The pen-ultimate event! For that, I would definitely have to show up in my Extreme Couture thongs, and unleash the Beast on you! Whatcha gonna do, when Damon The Beast Daniels, and all of Beast-mania, runs wild on you!?! |
ChrisZacher
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... CHHHHRISSS ZACCCHHRRRR!!! oHHH YEEAAHHH!!!1 BTW my wife's nam eis Beth, as in Elizabeth. |